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FranceVFR avatar image
FranceVFR suggested RXP edited

When will you create a communication channel between you Asobo and the MSFS developers?

When will you create a communication channel between you Asobo and the MSFS developers?
I can tell you that it's very frustrating not to be able to exchange with your teams to detail known problems that have been partly solved in previous versions of the simulator, and to have even global answers from developer to developer! Many of us have experience of several years, sometimes decades in development for FS and we are familiar with what should sometimes be put in place to facilitate our work and therefore productivity for release more and better products...

help
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Si seulement Laurent... Mind you, they can't be more clear about what they think of us (long time vendors with decades of experience in this industry):

screenshot-2022-05-23-174204.jpg

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Indeed Jean-Luc, thank you so much! I'm always absolutely amazed by the ingenuity, scrappiness, and determination of the folks that make up the close FS dev community. It can be a tough industry, with sometimes limited resources available, on tight budgets and timelines. Absolutely all the respect.


As you obviously were able to tell in my message last year, I (and the team) are enormously passionate about making a much larger market for you to all exist in, by growing the player-base and making a more inviting community for simmers not only hardcore, but entry level as well; and through lowering dev costs with continued investment in the APIs, SDK, tooling, and (as explained by Alyzee and Eric) with an open forum for support, where answers can benefit everyone, and not just select developers. Every kind of simmer should feel welcome in this expanding sim community, even though we all continue to strive for greater and greater realism! And we really, truly want you all to be able to grow your businesses as well, beyond what was typical in previous flight sim addon economies.

I appreciate you calling out the message of support for you all! We're all in this together.

-Matt

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SonantAlpaca avatar image
SonantAlpaca commented

Hello,

We decided to open the DevSupport platform for this reason: having a place where we can exchange with developers, share important information, connect with you and provide more details when the documentation isn't enough (and, of course, collect feedback to improve it).

Since the opening last year, we received +1400 questions from +825 users. While of course there are not 800 people as advanced as you can be on the process of publishing an asset on the Marketplace, it still represents a lot of people and we simply can't afford to have direct communication channels with each of them. That's why the platform is the best choice we could make: you can interact with the rest of the community and we do our best to provide answers to your technical questions. But it should be stated again that most of the time, investigating your issues takes minimum 2 hours per issue, and we can spend up to 3 days trying to repro sometimes... All that on a team of 2 people and it's not even their fulltime job.

So we won't be able to open more communication channels with you devs, and we're focusing our efforts & doing our very best here.

Best regards,

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FranceVFR avatar image
FranceVFR commented FranceVFR edited

"We decided to open the DevSupport platform for this reason: having a place where we can exchange with developers, share important information, connect with you and provide more details when the documentation isn't enough (and, of course, collect feedback to improve it). "...

There are numerous forums and dedicated groups for that ! We do not need one more !

We need a communication channel between professionals developers and Asobo developers, in order to share feedback, bugs, missing or poorly implemented features so that developers can improve their products and help to improve the simulator in general!

There are completely aberrant things that we professional developers noticed right away and regularly notice, and it happens that asobo developers as good as they are are not even aware because a few months ago they did not had never asked themselves the question of the tools and features that developers like us need and the best way to use it...

That's it, it's only my opinion as a developer under FS for almost 20 years, I don't question the work you do, but it's not what we need the most now :-)

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runshotgun avatar image
runshotgun commented

All that on a team of 2 people and it's not even their fulltime job.”

I don’t think we need to dig much deeper. Is it a lack of budget or something MS doesn’t want you to do?

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EPellissier avatar image
EPellissier commented RXP edited

"There are numerous forums and dedicated groups for that ! We do not need one more !" -> may I ask which of these put you in direct contact with Asobo developers?

"We need a communication channel between professionals developers and Asobo developers" -> this is DevSupport. Even though the primary interface here is the SDK team, ideas/issues coming from third party developers that are not directly SDK-related are then discussed within the studio.

"There are completely aberrant things that we professional developers noticed right away " -> then please explain here what these issues are. As far as I know there won't be a more direct channel to us. Disclaimer: it doesn't mean either that we will stop all other developments straight away just to address your immediate concern.

"they did not had never asked themselves the question of the tools and features that developers like us need and the best way to use it " -> it is very possible that we never thought about the tools & features you need specifically - we have to find the right balance between development efforts and the number of developers who gain benefit from these. Once again, please feel free to describe here what tools & features are missing for your projects. (same disclaimer!)

"I don’t think we need to dig much deeper. Is it a lack of budget or something MS doesn’t want you to do?" -> There is budget and Microsoft is 100% supportive of DevSupport. Our main issue right now is finding the right person(s) to help, hence the "hiring" message we recently published through the DevMode alert system.

Best regards,

Eric / Asobo

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@Epellissier,


Although I am a 3rd party developer, if you need someone to test the SDK and SDK QA consider using me.

I think I have proven via this forum how good I am at reporting issues, which means also I am good at finding them. Clearly this is happening because I am using the SQK daily for multiple types of projects from aircraft to missions, to stand alone modules, you name it..

So perhaps, until you find the right person as you are pointing out, you could use me (and others) as a resource, and guess what? you don't have to pay me anything.. I just want to contribute to have better tools for everyone after all it is for my own benefit as well and I am sure many other 3rd party developers that know me around would be more than happy knowing I am testing the tools we are all using.

Just some food for thoughts, I understand you might need to go ahead with custom policies and procedures instead. In any case, thanks for all the efforts to help us Eric, very much appreciated, just wanted to extend my helping hand to you and your team in case it has some use.

All the best,
Raul

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just wanted to extend my helping hand to you and your team...

??

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FranceVFR avatar image
FranceVFR commented FranceVFR edited

Thank you... that's what we call in France "une réponse de Normand" :-)

We will therefore content ourselves with this forum, hoping that it will be enough to solve the maximum number of problems encountered!


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vpilot avatar image
vpilot commented vpilot edited

This is just my personal opinion and I do not mean to cause controversy. I agree with the OP and wish there was a better channel of communication between the developers and Asobo/Microsoft. Especially when it comes to troubleshooting specific issues. For example, yesterday, a problem was reported to us via teams for one of our addons and I immediately started troubleshooting the issue. It was hard and inconvenient to share information over teams text. It is easier to describe the findings and results of my troubleshooting via voice or video call where I can share my screen, specially when the problem is related to the sim and not our addon. This is just an example, we have had problems reported and the SDK was the problem and sometimes we do not get a response right away which causes delays in products release.


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RXP avatar image
RXP commented RXP edited

@mattnischan

No matter how you sugar coat it, our market place application is still pending processing for 21 months in a row and what you're saying or doing doesn't seem to be translating in getting any new Reality XP product on the Marketplace for the XBox users because of this.


@SonantAlpaca, @EPellissier

> this is DevSupport. Even though the primary interface here is the SDK team, ideas/issues coming from third party developers that are not directly SDK-related are then discussed within the studio.


devsupport is a fantastic tool and we're glad (I believe we all are, not just me) you're spending so much time helping us out, even more so if this is not your main job description. This speaks for your dedication.

I also believe some of us have needs for which the prior forum* was more appropriate because it was governed by a legally binding mutual NDA between Microsoft and us, and it was well suited for discussions we can't publicly disclose nor expose on devsupport.


> Our main issue right now is finding the right person(s) to help, hence the "hiring" message we recently published through the DevMode alert system.


There are renown and experienced vendors, who understand what it is you're dealing with, and who are wanting to help you out on many different aspects of the simulation and the SDK (certains d'entre nous sont meme Français). I believe you can gain from this expertise should you also embrace us in a direct and mutually beneficial collaboration. Not only we know the trade, but we are willing to help...


* Prior devsupport, there was this forum (now closed) only for the members of the "Official Third Party Devs" group (mostly renown and experienced add-on vendors) in which we were exchanging with many Asobo employees directly. It was out of reach from the public and from search engines and perfectly suited to open discussions among us.

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This forum is for development support only. For any issues regarding the Marketplace or Marketplace applications, please contact Microsoft or your Microsoft Marketplace representative.

Thanks!

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RXP avatar image RXP mattnischan ·

> And we really, truly want you all to be able to grow your businesses as well, beyond what was typical in previous flight sim addon economies. I appreciate you calling out the message of support for you all! We're all in this together.


I'll take your word that we're in this together and you would like to help grow our business beyond what is typical in previous flight sim addon economies. I'm hoping you are lending your hand when you're saying you're all in this with us and that you truly want to support vendors like Reality XP. Helping us getting our application processed and approved after waiting 21 months would be a sign of good faith, and a chance to start on new grounds in solving this hindrance. I barely start to imagine all the potential now that you're offering to grow a better relationship but I'm certain it can only be good and I thank you for your sincerity and your offer to help us out.

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Hello,

The MSFS development teams are not involved with the Marketplace applications or the package submissions processes and this forum is for technical support only. If you are having issues with your Marketplace application or an issue publishing to the Marketplace, you will need to contact Microsoft or your Marketplace team representative.

Thanks!

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