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superspud avatar image
superspud asked SimHorizon commented

How long is the 'temporary' reprieve for LOD implementation on PC?

I see that the sim update 5 testers made enough noise to get the implementation of LOD levels for models on PC delayed for this update.

Will we be getting a firm date for when it will be put in place?

I for one will be deleting any project of mine that has numerous models. It's too much utterly thankless work and I was too bone idle to create LODs when level 0 worked absolutely fine.

I didn't even know what it was until a long time after I started creating.

For projects with a handful models I will probably look into it, but if it is to happen I certainly want to know when in advance.

modeling
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Losco_Nosciuto avatar image
Losco_Nosciuto answered Losco_Nosciuto commented

1st - The new LOD Method is OPTIONAL, can be changed via settings.
2nd - You can do whatever it pleases you with your model but I personally think like this.
I want who dowloads my sceneries to enjoy them regardless of the settings. Just because I have a mid-high end machine, it doesn't mean I have to design a scenery around that. I'm spending 4 days by now creating LODs for my models, and tbh I just feel like it's the best thing to do

3rd -

 I for one will be deleting any project of mine that has numerous models. It's too much utterly thankless work and I was too bone idle to create LODs when level 0 worked absolutely fine.

I'm not here to state what you should or shouldn't do, but isn't this a kind of exaggerated reaction?
I personally knew I'd have to do updates when I started the adventure on MSFS, and also "getting to know LODs after a long time since you started scenery creation", is kinda weird. Someone who like to do something (or in my case, work with it) should find out about LODs pretty soon. It's basically front-page when it comes to Assets Creation in the Official Online Documentation, and also is a common practice in every videogame or rendered movie.

2 comments
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The new LOD method, or rather the existing one, was going to be mandatory on PC for sim update 5. They're saying it's just been delayed. That's what this question is.



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Whenever it is, It took me 4 days to sort out 44 models out of my time off my regular job. It isn't much of a challenge once you get into the workflow. And personally, I never do 4 LODs, only 3.
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SonantAlpaca avatar image
SonantAlpaca answered SimHorizon commented

Hello,

I'm going to sum up the situation, hoping it will be clearer. :)

TODAY :

- On XBOX, you have the new LOD management system. Which means that an object with only 1 LOD will disappear if its size is inferior to 5% of the screen (used to be 0,5% before).

- On PC, we restored the former system: your object will disappeared if it's smaller than 0,5%. But we added an option in the DevMode (XBOX LOD Selection Mode) which will enable the Xbox behaviour (described above). It allows you to check how your sceneries would look like on Xbox.

This being said, we strongly advise you to create at least 3 LODs for your objects. We mentioned it in the online documentation : https://docs.flightsimulator.com/html/index.htm#t=Asset_Creation%2F3D_Models%2FLoDs.htm

But I reckon that we could have stated it louder.

There are no other plans for a close future but we'll keep you posted ASAP.

If you have more questions let me know!

6 comments
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Cool. Thank you. I knew about the LOD system and the Xbox changes.

But this sentence in yesterday's development update is the reason for this thread -

'We have temporarily reverted the LOD selection mechanism to its previous state on PC. '

So is it the case that keeping the system is no longer temporary?

I'll do it in future but it's not practical for certain existing projects.

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Actually at the moment I don't know how long the "temporary" part will last - but getting the former behaviour at least allows people to enjoy the same experience as before, on PC. So the best advise would be to add more LODs anyway. 3 is enough.

If you have small objects (with few polygons and low res textures), you can duplicate the LOD 2 times. But make sure you ONLY do that on SMALL objects, otherwise you'll exceed the memory space and that never ends well...!

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SimHorizon avatar image SimHorizon SonantAlpaca ♦♦ ·
The issues I see:


1. Documentation says 4 LODs

2. This is impacting PC end users with SU5 so there might be a bug.

3. Initial creation of 3 or 4 LODs isn't the biggest issue, but when updates are necessary that cycle can start to get tedious.

4. Modern game engines like UE5 don't require LOD (handle by the engine).

I appreciate what you are trying to do for the XBOX version and be more inclusive in user base (that's good for everyone), but if I were to suggest anything as "temporary" looking into future game engines/platforms, then the LOD system would be top of the list as something that will and is going away for content providers (for good reason).

I just find it hard to embrace "modern" as being DX11 and LOD. Please add my request to move to DX12 to gain performance as XBOX now supports full DX12_2 and deprecate end user/dev LOD based model processing.

Cheers, Rob.

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Thanks Alizee, that's some great communication
We as developers should all know the sdk guidelines, those lod"s instruction are there since the beginning!

But you know, if something work, and doesn't throws exceptions..Who cares!


We Just Need a Little bit of "push" or Better, a kick in the right direction before changes happens.

we love deadlines,

Just tell us: the new solution Will be online within 2 or 3 months, be adviced!


Of course optimization Is welcome, more FPS means more space to add process new things, and

you have lot of stuff to add to the Sim and overall resource Is finite, we could not count on technology Evolution only










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I'll have to admit that our communication wasn't good enough in that particular case.

I sincerely apologize for that ... And the only promise I can make is that we're trying to do better for next time.

We're currently thinking about ways to keep you posted about major changes, either in the DevMode or here on the DevSupport platform. :)


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Simbol avatar image Simbol SonantAlpaca ♦♦ ·
Hi Alizee,


The biggest issue is we are unable to test upcoming builds until they are available to public where such changes just hit us in the face forcing us to implement radical changes when things break.

Typical example model behaviors changed tags and we just found out when 1.18 became public.

Mouse react points are behaving differently and we just found out when the built was published.

Although the fix for mouse movements are easy, when you have large projects in the pipeline, having to fix all of them suddenly presents not only a bigger challenge, but also lots of stress when your customers or other 3rd party developers that you with demands immediately repairs to multiple projects in order to satisfy their customers since they are upset because products stopped working.

It seems developers with access to market place had access to beta builds among other devs like Pmdg, etc. But others were just unable to participate.

It would be ideal if other 3rd party developers who are under NDA already with MSFS (like myself) Could also get access to such beta builds so we could not only be alerted of key changes to the platform, but also report issues before it becomes a real problem after release, for example pink textures issues due to faults with the 1.18 gLTF reader and the packaging tool.

After all we are all partners in this business with the end goal to provide the best experience possible to MSFS users.

Finally I would like to thank you for the time and effort your are putting to keep us in the loop and help us as much as possible, I know you don't have enough resources to do all you wish for 3rd party developers and the SDK, so every single second you take to communicate with us is incredibly apreciated.

Hope we can find ways to improve the relationship and increase efficiency.

All the best,

Raul

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