I am having some issues with the fuel system triggers. First, it appears that
there is a typo in the SDK regarding the fuel tank imbalance conditions. The
SDK says (for the imbalance below condition for example) : “Checks if there is
a relative fuel imbalance between two tanks below the given Threshold
(threshold in Gallons). Requires the Target key to hold two tank names, eg:
#Target=TankLeft,TankRight” I think this should be
“#Target:TankLeft,TankRight”, that is, a colon instead of an equals sign after
the #Target. Second, I am trying to use the StopTrigger event to prevent a
trigger from occurring, but am unable to get it to work. I would like to use a
fuel imbalance trigger to open certain fuel valves, but only if the overall
fuel quantity in the associated tanks is less than a certain value. The
triggers I have (at this point in development) are: Trigger.1 =
Name:SetFwdGalleryJunc1#Target:LeftInner#Threshold:1#Condition:TankQuantityAbove#EffectTrue:SetJunction.FwdGalleryJunction.1
Trigger.2 =
Name:InnerXfer1Start#Target:Feed1#Threshold:6437#Condition:TankQuantityBelow#EffectTrue:OpenValve.FeedTank1FwdTransferValve,StopTrigger.InnerXfer4Start
Trigger.3 =
Name:InnerXfer2Start#Target:Feed2#Threshold:6858#Condition:TankQuantityBelow#EffectTrue:OpenValve.FeedTank2FwdTransferValve
Trigger.4 =
Name:InnerXfer3Start#Target:Feed3#Threshold:6858#Condition:TankQuantityBelow#EffectTrue:OpenValve.FeedTank3FwdTransferValve
Trigger.5 =
Name:InnerXfer4Start#Target:Feed4#Threshold:6437#Condition:TankQuantityBelow#EffectTrue:OpenValve.FeedTank4FwdTransferValve,StopTrigger.InnerXfer1Start
Trigger.6 =
Name:FeedTank1EndRefill#Target:Feed1#Threshold:6765#Condition:TankQuantityAbove#EffectTrue:CloseValve.FeedTank1FwdTransferValve,StopTrigger.Equalize1and4
Trigger.7 =
Name:FeedTank2EndRefill#Target:Feed2#Threshold:7186#Condition:TankQuantityAbove#EffectTrue:CloseValve.FeedTank2FwdTransferValve
Trigger.8 =
Name:FeedTank3EndReFill#Target:Feed3#Threshold:7186#Condition:TankQuantityAbove#EffectTrue:CloseValve.FeedTank3FwdTransferValve
Trigger.9 =
Name:FeedTank4EndReFill#Target:Feed4#Threshold:6765#Condition:TankQuantityAbove#EffectTrue:CloseValve.FeedTank4FwdTransferValve,StopTrigger.Equalize1and4
Trigger.10 =
Name:Equalize1and4#Target:Feed1,Feed4#Threshold:10#Condition:TankAbsImbalanceBelow#EffectTrue:OpenValve.FeedTank1FwdTransferValve,OpenValve.FeedTank4FwdTransferValve
The bolded triggers are the ones I am having difficulty with. Triggers 6 and 9
seem to be unable to stop Trigger 10 from occurring. The SimVars show triggers
6, 9, and 10 to all be active at the same time. Question: Is the StopTrigger
effect supposed to deactivate an already activated trigger, or to prevent a
not yet activated trigger from activating, or both?
Hello @donstim , Can you send us your
flight_model.cfg please ? See[ 3) Provide Private
Content](https://devsupport.flightsimulator.com/articles/5483/how-to-report-a-
bug-or-crash.html) Thanks, Regards, Boris
I’ve done as you asked. I have an additional question as well. The SDK
provides for a trigger condition identified as “manual.” It is described as
follows: “This is a manual trigger event that can only be triggered by using a
Key Event.” It is not clear to me exactly how this would be done. For example,
would there need to be a “target” or a “threshold” identified? Could you
provide an example of the syntax needed? I am most interested in using this to
allow a cockpit pushbutton to place fuel pumps in either an auto state where
they would be controlled by the fuel system triggers, or an off state that
would disable triggers that would otherwise start the pumps. In thinking about
the above stated desire, it appears that there are additional issues with
attempting to do this. Apparently, triggering a fuel pump to start or stop via
a fuel system trigger in the flight_model.cfg file will cause the associated
cockpit push button to also switch to the “on” or “off” position, when what is
desired is that it remains in an “auto” or “enabled” position. (This “auto” is
different than the “auto” mode currently in the SDK.) In the A380, for
example, a fuel pump switch could either be put in an “auto” position that
would allow fuel pumps to start and stop in response to specific conditions,
or an “off” position. Stopping the fuel pumps via a specific triggering
condition should not result in the fuel pump push button going to the off
position. This same issue applies to the fuel valves. There are two switch
positions – auto and manual (which would manually open the valves). If in
auto, they would open in response to certain triggers. But it appears that in
MSFS, opening the valves via a fuel system trigger would cause the switch
position to change from auto to manual (open).
Hello @donstim, We think this is due to the way
aircraft editor handles triggers and how the cfg is built then. They normally
support up to 10 parameters but for some reason this was limited to a maximum
of 7 and so the last 3 parameters were not taken into account. We will fix
this. About the typo, we will update the doc Thank you for reporting this
Regards, Boris
Thank you for your answer, but I’m afraid I don’t really understand it. I did
not use the aircraft editor to build the cfg. What exactly are the parameters
in the fuel system section that are limited to 10 in number and where is this
stated in the SDK? For example, in a trigger would the “name” be one
parameter, the target be another, the conditions be another, and each event
also be one? Is the a limit to the number of “triggers” that can be used?
Could you clarify whether a “stop” trigger prevents another trigger from being
activated, deactivates a trigger that has already been activated, or both? Do
you have an answer for the additional question I asked in a comment above on
22 January? When should I expect to see the fix you identified incorporated?
Thanks again.
I have done some additional testing and still do not understand how the start
and stop triggers are supposed to work (also see previous comment). It does
not appear to me simply be an issue with the number of parameters. For this
test, I used the Asobo A320NEO and edited the flight_model.cfg file to add a
name to trigger 1 in the fuel system and to add a trigger 5 as follows:
Trigger.1 =
Name:Trigger1#Target:LeftInner#Threshold:250#Condition:TankQuantityBelow#EffectTrue:OpenValve.LeftTransferValve1,OpenValve.LeftTransferValve2#EffectFalse:CloseValve.LeftTransferValve1,CloseValve.LeftTransferValve2
Trigger.2 =
Target:RightInner#Threshold:250#Condition:TankQuantityBelow#EffectTrue:OpenValve.RightTransferValve1,OpenValve.RightTransferValve2#EffectFalse:CloseValve.RightTransferValve1,CloseValve.RightTransferValve2
Trigger.3 =
Condition:Autostart_Enabled#EffectTrue:OpenValve.LeftEngineValve,OpenValve.RightEngineValve,OpenValve.CrossFeedValve,OpenValve.APUValve,StartPump.CenterTankPump1,StartPump.LeftInnerTankPump1,StartPump.RightInnerTankPump1,StartPump.CenterTankPump2,StartPump.LeftInnerTankPump2,StartPump.RightInnerTankPump2,StartPump.APUPump
Trigger.4 =
Condition:Autoshutdown_Enabled#EffectTrue:CloseValve.LeftEngineValve,CloseValve.RightEngineValve,CloseValve.CrossFeedValve,CloseValve.APUValve,StopPump.CenterTankPump1,StopPump.LeftInnerTankPump1,StopPump.RightInnerTankPump1,StopPump.CenterTankPump2,StopPump.LeftInnerTankPump2,StopPump.RightInnerTankPump2
Trigger.5 =
Target:Center#Threshold:1#Condition:TankQuantityAbove#EffectTrue:StopTrigger.Trigger1#EffectFalse:StartTrigger.Trigger1
I started a flight on the runway. I added fuel to the center tank.
Simvarwatcher shows that the SimVar for fuelsystemtriggerstatus:5 is 1. This
should activate stoptrigger.Trigger1, which is the name I gave for trigger 1.
However, when I reduce the left inner fuel tank quantity to less than 250
gallons (the condition for triggering trigger 1), trigger 1 is activated. This
is shown by the Simvarwatcher fuelsystemtriggerstatus:1 =1 and by observing
the left outer fuel tank transferring fuel into the inner tank. Trigger 5 and
trigger 1 are both shown as activated by Simvarwatcher even though the effect
of trigger 5 is supposed to stop trigger 1. The same thing happens if I start
with no center fuel, then reduce the inner tank fuel level to activate trigger
1, then add center fuel to activate trigger 5, which should stop trigger 1. It
appears to me that either the stop triggers don’t work, or the syntax I am
using (which I believe matches what is stated in the SDK) is wrong. I also
noticed two more issues with the SDK in this area: 1) It says the name
parameter for a trigger is required. Yet the triggers in the Asobo A320NEO do
not have names and neither does the example of a trigger you provide in the
SDK, and 2) In this line in the SDK showing structure of the trigger line:
Trigger.N =
Name:#Title:#Target:#Threshold:#:Index:#DelayTrue::#DelayFalse:#Condition:#EffectTrue:#EffectFalse:
there is a colon between “#” and “Index” that I don’t think belongs there. I
just noticed that there is also an extraneous “:” after the first ."
Hello @donstim ,
“I started a flight on the runway. I added fuel to the center tank.
Simvarwatcher shows that the SimVar for fuelsystemtriggerstatus:5 is
1…trigger 1 is activated. This is shown by the Simvarwatcher
fuelsystemtriggerstatus:1 =1 and by observing the left outer fuel tank
transferring fuel into the inner tank. Trigger 5 and trigger 1 are both
shown as activated by Simvarwatcher even though the effect of trigger 5 is
supposed to stop trigger 1.”
- That’s not how it’s supposed to work. The effects of triggers only refresh
when the state changes. This means that they do not refresh continuously. If
you make the Trigger5 go false and then on, it will trigger its EffectTrue,
otherwise it will not.
“It says the name parameter for a trigger is required. Yet the triggers in
the Asobo A320NEO do not have names and neither does the example of a
trigger you provide in the SDK, and”.
- The name is needed for the components to refer to each other, so it’s
needed for all the other things because they need to refer to each other to be
in the fuel circuit. For some triggers it is not necessary but it’s strongly
recommended to put a name.
there is a colon between “#” and “Index” that I don’t think belongs there. I
just noticed that there is also an extraneous “:” after the first .
You’re right and the doc will be updated.
Could you clarify whether a “stop” trigger prevents another trigger from
being activated, deactivates a trigger that has already been activated, or
both?
For example, let’s assume a Trigger1 that has a stop condition for
Trigger2. Trigger2 will deactivate when Trigger1 activates, but if there
is something else that causes Trigger2 to reactivate, there is nothing to
block it. As long as Trigger2 doesn’t change its state, it does nothing.
The SDK provides for a trigger condition identified as “manual.” It is
described as follows: “This is a manual trigger event that can only be
triggered by using a Key Event.” It is not clear to me exactly how this
would be done. For example, would there need to be a “target” or a
“threshold” identified?
No, it’s not necessary to define a target or a threshold when using a manual
trigger. They can be used to group interractions. For example, instead of
having to call two key events to open two valves, you can just have one
trigger that opens those two valves and then call that trigger when you do
your interraction. As for your other questions : - There is no limit to
the amount of trigger that can be used. - About the 10 parameters I mentioned
above, this limit is not visible for you, it’s when the params are processed.
No ETA for the fix yet but I will let you know. Regards, Boris
[Edited - After conducting additional testing, I’ve completely re-written this
comment to provide further clarity and information] For example, let’s assume
a Trigger1 that has a stop condition for Trigger2. Trigger2 will deactivate
when Trigger1 activates, but if there is something else that causes Trigger2
to reactivate, there is nothing to block it. As long as Trigger2 doesn’t
change its state, it does nothing. What could be that “something else” that
would cause Trigger 2 to reactivate? I had assumed that it would need to be a
start trigger, but apparently that’s incorrect. And what do you mean by
“reactivate?” Does this mean; (1) Cause the trigger to be available to listen
for and react to events, or (2) Cause the trigger to have whatever condition
it is listening for to be resolved as true? In fact, I’ve already shown
numerous examples where it does not work how you described it. Here’s another,
very simple one. I have removed all other triggers from the Asobo A320neo fuel
system except for trigger 1. I then added a trigger 2 that is supposed to stop
trigger 1 whenever the cg is greater than 25% MAC. Trigger.1 =
Name:Trigger1#Target:LeftInner#Threshold:250#Condition:TankQuantityBelow#EffectTrue:OpenValve.LeftTransferValve1,OpenValve.LeftTransferValve2#EffectFalse:CloseValve.LeftTransferValve1,CloseValve.LeftTransferValve2
Trigger.2 =
Condition:CGAboveLimit#Threshold:0.25#EffectTrue:StopTrigger.Trigger1 I then
started a flight in cruise with a bit over the trigger point of 250 gallons of
fuel in the left inner tank. I changed the cg until it was above the trigger 2
trigger point, verified by fuelsystem trigger status.2=1. When the fuel level
in the left inner tank went below 250 gallons, trigger 1 activated (as
evidenced by the fuel transfer from outer to inner being initiated and by the
simvar fuelsystem trigger status.1=1 ) even though trigger1 was supposed to be
stopped. I then changed the cg position to less than 25% MAC, so that trigger
2 was false (correctly shown by fuelsystem trigger status.2=0), then increased
the cg position until the trigger 2 condition was again true (fuelsystem
trigger status.2=1, which should stop trigger 1 according to your description.
However, there was no change to the status of trigger 1. The fuel continued to
transfer and the related simvar stayed at 1. Now, maybe you could say that
well, trigger 1 is no longer being monitored, so the status does not change.
But then if I add enough fuel to cause the trigger event to become false, the
fuel transfer stops, and the trigger 1 simvar changes to 0. Why would this
happen if the trigger is no longer being monitored? How should the fuel system
be behaving with the 2 triggers above? It is still unclear to me how the start
and stop trigger events are supposed to work. Currently, these events don’t
appear to me to offer much utility and don’t meet our needs in using the MSFS
modern fuel system to model the A380 fuel system. Before I had the benefit of
your explanation, my assumption (based on the sparse SDK documentation) and
influenced by our particular needs) was that a stop trigger would effectively
remove the named trigger, i.e., as if it was completely deleted from the cfg
file. A start trigger would effectively re-introduce the named trigger as if
it were adding the trigger back into the cfg file, which would be needed
before the trigger could then be reactivated (through meeting its trigger
condition). Seeing as the stop and start triggers don’t appear to work in this
logical fashion, is there another means within the modern fuel system to
accomplish what I described in the paragraph above? (Or, conversely, is there
a reason that the start and stop triggers should not or cannot be modified to
work in that manner? I have yet to see any airplane where these conditions are
used.) I’m also confused by the following exchange: Me - “I started a flight
on the runway. I added fuel to the center tank. Simvarwatcher shows that the
SimVar for fuelsystemtriggerstatus:5 is 1…trigger 1 is activated. This is
shown by the Simvarwatcher fuelsystemtriggerstatus:1 =1 and by observing the
left outer fuel tank transferring fuel into the inner tank. Trigger 5 and
trigger 1 are both shown as activated by Simvarwatcher even though the effect
of trigger 5 is supposed to stop trigger 1.” __ You - That’s not how it’s
supposed to work. The effects of triggers only refresh when the state changes.
This means that they do not refresh continuously. If you make the Trigger5 go
false and then on, it will trigger its EffectTrue, otherwise it will not. In
fact, what you described about how triggers should work sounds exactly like
what I did. I started with a Trigger 5 that is false and then added fuel to
change its effect to true. It did so (exactly as expected). What it did not do
was stop trigger 1 in the way that I expected, i.e., to change its state to
false. In fact, it doesn’t appear to do anything at all.
Hello @donstim , When we say that Trigger2 stop Trigger1, it’s an instant
action. It will run the Trigger1 EffectFalse. It doesn’t force it to false
continuously, if behind the condition that drives Trigger1 goes to True (if
for example the amount of fuel goes back over 250, the EffectsTrue will run
even if Trigger2 is still active. The important thing to understand here is
that the triggers only execute their actions when the state changes. They
don’t force these actions to remain activated as this could lead to conflicts.
If you need a complex system, you may want to develop your own custom XML/Wasm
solution that will give you more flexibility. Regards, Boris
Thank you for responding, Boris. I’ve provided a couple of examples now that
appear to me to not do what you say it should do. You say that if there is a
state change to change Trigger 2 to True, then Trigger 1 will immediately
change to EffectFalse. This did not happen in my example above. Trigger 1 was
true. Trigger 2 was false. I changed the cg position to cause Trigger 2 to
become True. This did not cause Trigger 1 to change to EffectFalse.
Also, thank you for indirectly answering the question I asked a couple of
times: “Could you clarify whether a “stop” trigger prevents another trigger
from being activated, deactivates a trigger that has already been activated,
or both?” Your reply indicates that it deactivates (makes false) a trigger
that has already been activated (that is, is in the true state). It does not
prevent another trigger from being activated. However, as explained by the
several examples I provided, I have not seen the stop trigger deactivate
another trigger than had already been activated. Here is a link to a video
showing this behavior: <https://1drv.ms/v/s!Ajsy7Ey4_8uFgYtdS-
JuQMktmAyPzw?e=XVQlob> I am only able to deactivate (make the condition false)
by satisfying the effectfalse condition in the original trigger. Using a stop
trigger for this trigger in another trigger does not deactivate the original
trigger.
Hello @donstim , StopTrigger and
StartTrigger are meant to be used only for manual triggers , not
dynamic ones. It explains why you are behaving this way. I apologize, I should
have detailed this in my previous answers. Regards, Boris
Ahh, the answer! Thanks! Please update the SDK with this very important
information. Also consider adding an example, which would serve 2 purposes –
to show how to use both a stop trigger and a manual event condition. Please
mark you comment above as the answer rather than your previous “answer.”
Thanks for the feedback. Indeed we will update the doc to add this information
@Nocturne Regards, Boris